
Authorgraph No 264: Debi Gliori
Debi Gliori interviewed by Lindsey Fraser
Conversation with Debi Gliori is always wide-ranging. Cooking, recipes, cycling, knitting, family, friends, environmental concerns, sea swimming, climate change, guinea pigs, the world of publishing – not necessarily in that order. Her boundless curiosity is both engaging and inspiring. She laughs a lot – her signature chuckle punctuates much of what she says. But she’s also serious, well informed, and holds firm opinions. There’s nothing half-hearted about Debi.
Which should come as no surprise to those of us familiar with her books.
Debi was already well published by the time Sarah Odedina, then Editorial Director at Bloomsbury, read the text for No Matter What. ‘She instantly loved it. I didn’t want to change a word, couldn’t bear the idea of it being tweaked or pulled about. And she just got it, immediately. It made her cry.’ The backstory to No Matter What is buried in a deeply unsettled period in Debi’s life. ‘I’d split with my husband, and my small daughter was broken, confused, angry, upset… I was reeling. It was my partner who held it together, who explained what was going on. He told me she was behaving as she was for very good reasons, her world had fallen apart, but also, because she wanted to know that I would always be there for her, she was testing me. And I had to get it together, do what needed to be done. I went off to my studio and wrote the story really quickly. And I knew at once that it was the real deal. It said everything I wanted to say, and everything I would love to have heard as a child of a broken family.’
Why foxes? ‘I always knew the characters had to be foxes. Such maligned animals, really beautiful and I’m partial to orange…’
No Matter What, a global best-seller, now celebrates its 25th birthday. ‘I think I knew it was going to be a success,’ says Debi. ‘My books need to satisfy me, first and foremost, but I also had confidence in that story. And I was right. Sarah (Odedina) was such a champion… She knew what I wanted to achieve, and she helped me achieve it. Gave me creative space, freedom, I don’t remember any ‘I love it, Debi, I really do, but…’ moments.’ This remark, delivered with a classic Gliori wince, leads to a canter down memory lane. ‘Publishing has changed. A lot,’ she says, smiling grimly.
Debi graduated from Edinburgh College of Art with the ambition of creating children’s picture books. ‘I knew it wouldn’t be easy, that I’d have to support us with other stuff, commissions… We were told to take our portfolio to London – in those days that’s where all the publishers lived – colour photocopies of your artwork – it wasn’t cheap and I was poor – I was up and down on the train with my precious cargo, offering it up, hoping… Some publishers made you leave your work and hope for the best, hoping, dreaming you’d get the call, others let us meet editors, and art editors.’
Debi’s first ‘yes’ came from Walker Books. ‘I had a call from (editor) Caroline Royds saying my story had made her laugh out loud. I mean, Walker Books! I remember seeing Sebastian Walker walking among the editors’ desks – God was in the room. He understood the value of words of encouragement. A contract was the dream, and I got that (New Big Sister was published in 1991), but it was the encouragement… from people for whom I had such respect… that was special.’
It was Amelia Edwards, legendary co-founder of Walker Books, who persuaded Debi to use watercolours. ‘I was avoiding them because when they’re on the paper there’s nothing much you can change. But I’ve learned a lot – with the right paper, good quality paper… the gentle application of a stanley knife, burnishing the area with the back of a teaspoon, you can do it. Make lines disappear. Magic.’ Debi found the paper of her dreams – Windsor and Newton Artist’s Watercolour Paper – and when she discovered it was being discontinued, she bought all the remaining stock.
Debi’s pencil roughs are extraordinary, packed with detail, jokes, kindnesses. ‘I can make a rod for my own back. But times have changed, so I probably send less detailed roughs to my editors these days… detail is my thing, and although working with editors – when it works – is great, I don’t really send out my roughs for debate.’ She regales me with anecdotes about editorial relationships, ‘tempestuous editorial relationships are rich with possibilities, they don’t shut down your ideas, they build them up…’ She recalls working with the late Pam Royds at Andre Deutsch on A Lion at Bedtime. ‘That book was a joy to work on… so much detail… And Pam loved it.’ But it wasn’t entirely plain sailing. ‘She baulked at a tiny detail – really tiny – showing minute mice hotwiring an electric blanket, but I stuck to my guns. I mean, really… We have huge responsibilities as creators of books for young children, but there’s a health and safety mentality that I work hard to resist.’
Two of her more recent picture books reflect Debi’s desire to push herself, and therefore her readers, into a more challenging narrative zone. ‘It’s not all bunnies in PJs…,’ she says. The inspiration for A Cat Called Waverley was a soldier, returning home having fought in war, to find his home had been demolished. ‘It’s about PTSD, really,’ says Debi. ‘And homelessness.’ The Boy and the Moonimal is about a lost toy, tested to its limits before being returned to the boy – who has grown up. ‘I’m proud of them both. I found a way to get myself out of the way, let the book take over… a kind of meditation… We have bad moods, get ourselves into some very dark spaces, all by ourselves, and it’s love that pulls us out again.’ Both picture books suffered because of the pandemic. ‘Publishing into those dead periods was fairly disastrous, certainly for me… it’s been a difficult period for lots of us. I put the same level of energy, passion, focus, into all my books and it can be crushing. If readers can’t find the books, those stories vanish. And they’re not given long to make their mark.’
What next? ‘The good folk at Bloomsbury often asked if I had another No Matter What in me. I couldn’t see a sequel… It’s not that I didn’t want to do it – I couldn’t do it.’ However, it was while out running – ‘I ran to stay sane’ – during the pandemic that the refrain for a new story came. ‘Originally, in the pandemic panic and fear early days, I thought I was writing about what ifs. ‘What if the sky falls down?’ kind of cataclysmic narrative thread. But as time went on and in all my attempts to write towards that direction, I realised that it was the personal internal ‘what ifs?’ Maybe it was the rhythm of running, the weird silence of the world at that time, maybe it was because my dad had just died, maybe it was my way of self-soothing… it was like walking on air, it felt scary but wonderful. Many rewrites later – and the response from my editor was fast.’
The finished artwork is well underway and Debi is delighted with it.
‘I’m two decades older, if not wiser, and I know stuff now that I didn’t know when I wrote No Matter What. I’m carrying baggage… not in a bad way. I know what a story like this can do because I have seen it happen with No Matter What. The letters I’ve been sent… it’s spoken to people in ways I couldn’t possibly have imagined… felt right for so many situations – joyful and sad. So many gay weddings! I even used it to bribe my way onto an overbooked last flight to Edinburgh on my way back from a book festival.’ Debi laughs and shakes her head. ‘The reach of a book for children – it blows my mind. They influence small people, put them to bed, tuck them up …’
Debi is loving working on the new book. ‘I’m in seventh heaven, not rushing…’ Publication date is yet to be set, but for now there are so many books – in addition to No Matter What – by Debi Gliori to explore.
Lindsey Fraser is a partner in Fraser Ross Associates, a literary agency she co-founded after working for Scottish Book Trust for many years.
Books mentioned:
No Matter What 25th Anniversary Edition, Bloomsbury Children’s Books, 978-1526665157, £7.99 pbk
The Boy and the Moonimal, Bloomsbury Children’s Books, 978-1408892916, £11.99 hbk
A Cat Called Waverley, Otter-Barry Books, 978-1913074067, £8.99 pbk